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不要盲目迷信品牌,转一个Pianoworld上的KAWAI KDP80评价

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发表于 2012-4-8 13:03:12 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
本帖最后由 ymh 于 2012-4-8 13:12 编辑

KAWAI终于引进中国,这个是好事,但去柏斯试了KAWAI KDP80以后才清醒,每个厂家都不是傻子。试了KDP80以后发现键盘轻而且松,没有阻尼感,完全是入门级电钢琴的键盘感觉,再看价格,果然。。。今天偶然发现Pianoworld上有一个电钢琴对比的文章,其中提到KAWAI KDP80,我贴在下面,基本和我试琴的感觉差不多,完全和憧憬中的KAWAI相差很大,希望有一天能试一下CA13。

I've read many a post on here about the pros (and cons) of each of these different "home" digital pianos. I'm in the market for one and recently got the chance to spend quie a few hours in a couple of local shops test-driving the following models.

Yamaha:
CLP 440
CLP 470

Roland:
HP-305
HP-307

Kawai:
KDP-80
CA13
CA63
CN23
CN33
CN42

The first one I tried was a KDP-80. I hated it. I thought "oh no, maybe we can't have a DP after all if this is what they play like. We'll have to have an acoustic". It felt awful, plasticky. There was hardly any sensitivity to the keys. The sound was artificial. (大致翻译:我第一个试的琴是KDP-80,我讨厌这个琴。我当时在想:“不,如果这就是演奏电钢琴的感觉,或许我根本不应该去选电钢琴。我会去买一架真钢琴。”KBP-80弹起来感觉是糟糕的、塑料感的。它的键盘弹起来很不灵敏。音色听上去很不自然。)This was the only DP this particular shop had in, so I left feeling very dejected.


I then tried the CLP440 and 470. Much better. "So we can have a digital after all". These felt much more like playing a piano. The CLP-470 was in polished ebony and looked really smart as well. This shop only sold Yamahas (I didn't bother trying any of the CVP models they had). But I left in much better spirits.

I then found another shop which had the Rolands and Kawais as well as the Yamahas.
I took my own headphones with me and switched between them for a couple of hours. As I moved between the models I started to feel very confused. They don't feel much different. How am I going to decide!! However then I played the Roland HP307. The very first thing to strike me was the feel of the keys. It actually physically made me smile. They felt fantastic. I tried the HP305 too and they also had the same feel.

It took me a lot longer to make a decision over the sound and the action but I eventually decided that I wasn't keen on the Yamahas. The sound (like many other people have reported) was too mellow, too muted. Sounded like it was being played with a cushion over the speakers or something (I exaggerate, but those who have tried them will know what I mean). Note - this wasn't anything to do with the amplification, or the built-in speakers. I was using my own headphones all the time. This is the sound itself. Perhaps its the instruments they sample, I dunno. The keys also felt too "square". Thats about the best I can describe them. It didn't feel as natural playing them as it did with the other makes. So I was then left comparing the Kawais and the Rolands.

Its really difficult. They both feel and sound noticably different. I very quickly dismissed the Kawai CNs. Again - they felt a bit plasticky; too 'glossy' and the sounds didn't sound as realistic. I think the sound on the Roland's is much nicer. The "Grand Piano 1" on the HP-307 sounded really really really nice.
On the Kawai CAs it was a little different. I didn't like the standard Concert Grand 1 on the CA63. It sounded like it had too much Reverb, particularly in the high end. I ended up playing the "Studio Grand" most. What I actually prefered was the first, standard piano sound on the CA13. As for how they played, I initially prefered the action on the Rolands. There are many who have posted here who can tell the difference between PHa II Ivory and PHa III and much prefer PhaIII. I couldn't tell. Perhaps it was down to the piece I was playing (I pretty much stuck to playing Maple Leaf Rag - just to have something consistent to compare). But then I thought maybe the Rolands were *too* realistic. I mean the action is very distinctive. It 'thumps'. You can hear and feel the thump when you play. Is this realistic? Probably not. But its *distinctive*, and maybe thats why I thought I prefered it, because I could feel it. Does that make sense?

In the end I kept coming back to the HP-307. I just *felt* more like playing a real piano, even down to the deep purple felt. (The CA63 was a bright red and the CA13 was black). Next up was the CA63. Despite the sound - it just 'felt' better than the CA13. The CA13 felt a little 'cramped'. Like the keys were slightly too short or something (even though they probably weren't - I didn't measure them). I'm probably not doing the HP305 justice since it was cramped into the room beside some boxes (so I couldn't sit the stool far enough back)and very dimly lit, so it goes bottom of my list.

Oh - and another thing to say about the Rolands and the CA63. the connection interface was very nicely placed under the keybed, facing out, so you can see very easily where to put your headphones / MIDI cables etc. The CA13 and all the Yamahas were hidden facing down toward the floor and very difficult to find / plug in. A small thing maybe, but if you're interchanging between headphones and speakers I'm sure it would quickly become annoying.

So: The hp307 and ca63 "feel" the most like playing a real piano, but the only problem with both is that they are relatively expensive and packed with features that I probably won't use. I just want a good piano sound. I don't care about organs and choirs and strings and pads and sequencers and "piano designers" etc etc. I'm a synth guy too - I can do all that on my workstation. So my wallet is telling me that I'd be paying for stuff that I wouldn't use (and I hate doing that). So if I were to buy new I'd probably go for the CA13 or the HP305.


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发表于 2012-4-8 13:47:44 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 梵尚 于 2012-4-8 13:51 编辑

你怎么可能期望kdp80这种级别的低端琴能和CLP440这种级别的琴相提并论呢

期待KAWAI是因为介个牌子有不少型号是令我很感兴趣的,肯定不至于说KAWAI的琴就一定会好过YAMAHA\ROLAND的琴,更不要说拿它家的低端琴去和别家的高端琴比了,只是多些选择和比较的话,更能够挑选到自己所需要和喜欢的琴
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发表于 2012-4-8 14:33:35 | 显示全部楼层
我也同样建议,如果为了手感KAWAI的低端琴就算了。他的手感很像KORG的NH级键盘。追求安静舒服的还可以。要有质的手感同时要5000元还是老老实实买SP250就好。
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发表于 2012-4-8 14:48:44 | 显示全部楼层
顾客是上帝 呵呵 上帝的话  些许犯傻  商家多精  研究上帝
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发表于 2012-4-8 16:07:19 | 显示全部楼层
相当有理。5000块有琴架,有三踏板。。手感必然不行。
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发表于 2012-4-8 17:05:06 | 显示全部楼层
看来是ROLAND的枪手。
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发表于 2012-4-8 19:35:46 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 cosun 于 2012-4-8 19:37 编辑

论坛也就那么几个新来的时不时吵吵闹闹的说KDP80多好,还真有点象前面一波说kurzweil多好一样。每个牌子都有好东西,也有垃圾。KDP80毫无疑问就是垃圾。KAWAI真正可以期待的是CA13,虽然在CA系列里面是最低端了,但好歹RM3键盘属于KAWAI目前最好的。

普及一下吧,KAWAI的键盘也进化过几次了,最新的RM3,非常好,比罗兰的PHAIII和YAMAHA的GH3键盘都好。但是KAWAI以前的键盘还有RH,以及更老的AHA。RH还勉强可以考虑,AHA看都不要看了。居然还有人以为AHA都能秒CASIO。从音色来说,KAWAI也经过了几代。开始是Harmonic Imaging,后来升级到Progesssive Harmonic Imaging,最新的是Ultra Progressive Harmonic Imaging。应该说,最新的UPHI还不错,但是肯定不如罗兰的SuperNatural,估计也不如雅马哈的GRE。CA63和CA93就是配的UPHI,但CA13降级到PHI,我觉得PHI听起来音质平平,有数码味。而那些更老的HI音源,比如这种KDP80货色,更不要期待了。

一分钱一分货的道理谁都懂,为啥KAWAI这个品牌一进来,大家就被所谓的“半价”策略冲昏了呢。KDP也就是个5K的价位,品质有那么值得期待的吗?我看还不如CASIO的AP系列,更不如Kurzweil。CA13可以期待,但仅限于键盘,音质只能说有CLP320水平吧。
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发表于 2012-4-9 10:49:11 | 显示全部楼层
cosun 发表于 2012-4-8 19:35
论坛也就那么几个新来的时不时吵吵闹闹的说KDP80多好,还真有点象前面一波说kurzweil多好一样。每个牌子都有 ...

对,5000-6000,不如sp250。虽然没那么完整的样子,但是绝对实用。
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发表于 2012-4-9 11:56:10 | 显示全部楼层
    一分钱一分货才是硬道理。鱼和熊掌不可得兼。要想玩好的电钢,那钞票也要大把大把地甩出去才拿得来的。
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发表于 2012-4-10 23:09:48 | 显示全部楼层
拿那些中高端琴和80比,有可比性?如果能砸2W元,我也可以写篇这样的文章大叫KDP80 SUCKS!!!,compared with Yamaha:CLP 440,CLP 470
Roland:HP-305 HP-307 Kawai: CA13 CA63 CN23 CN33 CN42。这种无脑比较不是脑残么,不要迷信外国人,不要迷信英语哦~2W不是人人的都能承受的。楼上有的说不如去买SP250,那是您的需求,您当然可以去买。但是大家需求都不一样,不能一刀切嘛。如果我说SP250外观很丑完全比不上80,您是不是要拿一篇论文出来证明外观不丑呢?如果有人因为外观不满意就不想再去碰这琴,您是不是会再度证明这人不是人类呢?如果有人买琴了但最后没有成为一代大师,您是不是又有话要说呢?

有的追求实用,有的追求华丽,有的要键盘轻,有的要键盘重,只要有个好心情那就是目的。我买的是80,我自己很高兴,我很满意,这足够了。至于您喜欢什么样的,我不太关心。不过您这篇帖子倒是很影响心情的。
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发表于 2012-4-10 23:12:21 | 显示全部楼层
10楼帖子同样送给7楼的。我想说,在我这里,AHA键盘还真把卡西欧秒了,至于您那里谁秒谁,我不太关心的。
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发表于 2012-4-10 23:18:29 | 显示全部楼层
cosun 发表于 2012-4-8 19:35
论坛也就那么几个新来的时不时吵吵闹闹的说KDP80多好,还真有点象前面一波说kurzweil多好一样。每个牌子都有 ...

看您资格挺老的,不过请搞清楚,您弹您的琴,我弹我的琴,互不干扰。如果您觉得帖子违规可以建议版主审查嘛,倚老卖老指指点点挺恶心的
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发表于 2012-4-11 13:33:33 | 显示全部楼层
colossal 发表于 2012-4-10 23:18
看您资格挺老的,不过请搞清楚,您弹您的琴,我弹我的琴,互不干扰。如果您觉得帖子违规可以建议版主审查 ...

脾气暴躁可不好。你爱买啥是你的事,非得把KDP说得这么NB就是误导公众了。
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发表于 2012-4-11 13:36:11 | 显示全部楼层
colossal 发表于 2012-4-10 23:18
看您资格挺老的,不过请搞清楚,您弹您的琴,我弹我的琴,互不干扰。如果您觉得帖子违规可以建议版主审查 ...

你心理太脆弱了,还这么吼吼没个完。建议再回去拜读我的帖子,我哪个地方卖老了,我是给你分析事实。看来你听不得别人说自己不好,生怕别人说你选错了。这点我可以理解你,呵呵。
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发表于 2012-4-11 16:42:57 | 显示全部楼层
原文拿KDP-80去跟不同等級價位的去比 ~基本上這個文就沒什麼可看性
KDP-80 跟CLP-440 CLP470 甚至CA13 CA63以上比 不同層次的東西 怎麼比

還有中國KAWAI的價格廣告~半價策略~真是很想笑~他的半價才是真的售價
這種半價策略騙人不實的廣告 ~讓我有點不屑中國代理的KAWAI

在台灣CA13 都賣得比CLP-440還要便宜多 跟CLP-430差不多
CA13 應該跟CLP-430比

根據我的了解
CA63 約等CLP-470==> 而論壇會比較也都這2各型號為多
事實上 ~這2各型號 才真的有可比姓
因為價格性能音色等 是同層次的東西~這樣比較才有意義阿
而CLP-440 則無類似的KAWAI產品可比

PS:同樣的東西~台灣的KAIWAI賣的還是比美國的KAWAI貴
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发表于 2012-4-11 17:58:13 | 显示全部楼层
cosun 发表于 2012-4-11 13:36
你心理太脆弱了,还这么吼吼没个完。建议再回去拜读我的帖子,我哪个地方卖老了,我是给你分析事实。看来 ...

你心理太脆弱了,还这么吼吼没个完
一直都看你在吼吼,感觉是你的心理太脆弱了。
你弹你的琴。他弹他的琴还要论坛交流什么?
论坛是个交流的地方不是你朋友去你家里指点你的琴不好。
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发表于 2012-4-11 18:13:08 | 显示全部楼层
31284 发表于 2012-4-11 17:58
你心理太脆弱了,还这么吼吼没个完
一直都看你在吼吼,感觉是你的心理太脆弱了。
你弹你的琴。他弹他的 ...

晕,你的大帽子扣的,我无言以对。
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发表于 2012-4-11 22:10:56 | 显示全部楼层
colossal 发表于 2012-4-10 23:12
10楼帖子同样送给7楼的。我想说,在我这里,AHA键盘还真把卡西欧秒了,至于您那里谁秒谁,我不太关心的。

喜欢就好,注重个人注重。如果都要好,那么就会贵点了
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发表于 2012-5-12 19:27:16 | 显示全部楼层
今天去琴行试了一下电钢琴,柏斯里面有kawai的cl26II和casio的几个型号,感觉cl26的手感最好,从接触琴键到弹到底都很扎实,反观casio的感觉是两段感非常明显。同时试了十几万的三角钢琴,感觉三角钢琴比cl26的手感还要轻。
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发表于 2012-5-13 00:31:45 | 显示全部楼层
Kawai除了PHI或UPHI音源可跟世界三大品牌比,HI绝不迷信!!!
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